An interview of Petar Karaboev from Dnevnik newspaper with Florence Robin, French Ambassador to Bulgaria.
Since September 2019, Ms. Florence Robin has been Ambassador to Sofia. She has been a physics teacher, holds a doctorate in epistemology and the history of the exact sciences, and comes from a career with senior positions in education management.
The six-month French presidency of the Council of the EU begins on January 1st, coinciding with the country’s presidential election. We are talking with the Ambassador of France in Sofia, Mrs. Florence Robin, what priorities Paris is preparing for the presidency, what is the French position on European integration in the Western Balkans, why France reacts so sharply to the AUKUS agreement (Australia – Britain – USA).
The last time France held the rotating presidency of the EU was in 2008, when Nicolas Sarkozy was president and Francois Fillon was prime minister (both are now convicted of abuse). In the United States, Barack Obama, Boyko Borissov and Victor Orban prime ministers, and Russia had not occupied Crimea.
Madam Ambassador, many things have changed over the past 13 years since the last French Presidency of the EU. Today, France is different, Europe is different, the world is different. A new French Presidency of the Council of the EU is forthcoming in a special period. What did France prepare for the first half of 2022?
– You are right that the period is very special. We are going through a very special era – France, Bulgaria, Europe, the world … And that is why it is very important for France to make efforts and have a successful presidency, to unite solidarity and friendship in Europe.
The first direction is for us the main topic of economic recovery. It must be social, solidary and, one might say, ecological, with a serious attitude towards environmental problems. Recovery is very important for all of us and must show the resilience of the EU.
The second direction we want to work on – of course, in line with the next rotating presidents, the Czech Republic and Sweden – is a strong Europe. We are talking about a Europe capable of taking its destiny into its own hands, better controlling its future and security.
The third direction is the feeling of belonging. All Europeans should feel like members of a family that, despite its linguistic and cultural diversity – or perhaps because of it – gives hope and visibility to young people. And most of all, a society that upholds democracy and the rule of law. That is, citizens of Europe who unite around the core values of the EU.
This is how we see the French Presidency at the moment. The road is difficult, but it must be walked. Because, as you said yourself, the world has become a very difficult place.
You talk about a European family, but often and mainly in Eastern Europe, including Bulgaria, there is dissatisfaction with such metaphors. There are people who say that in this family some behave like parents and others are treated like children. What do you think the family of Europe looks like? Who are the “parents” and who are the “children”?
– I do not know if this is exactly how we can talk about the European family. I mean family in a broader sense – surname, family. Cousins who did not grow up in the same conditions. Some left at one point and then returned. Others have gone through difficult times, quarreled with the family, but are now convinced that they will succeed and live better if they overcome the difficult moments in their history and find meaning in this family.
So what makes sense in a family is the outstretched hand, not the old stories of the past that sometimes undermine the whole idea. What we need to do is accept differences and turn them into wealth.
We are an amazing continent. With a rich history, beautiful nature, full of diversity, with intelligent people who want to make the world a better place. Let’s give them that opportunity. Let us be in solidarity with each other. Our new history is not the same, national contexts are different. But we know that our future is inextricably linked.
The French Presidency also coincides with the presidential election in your country – important for both the French and Europe. What impact will the presidency election campaign have?
– I think it will be positive. This fact will also help to involve Europe in the election campaign and will remind the French that some of the decisions they make apply not only to them, but also to the whole vision of our common future. France and the French must feel like members of this great family we are talking about.
Some of the choices we all make – for democracy, human rights, energy, education – have an impact not only on us, but on the integrity of Europe.
In 2021, the French Institute celebrates 30 years since its establishment in Bulgaria, developing from a small library to an entire complex on Slaveykov Square. What did the institute try to teach the Bulgarians during that time and what did it learn from the Bulgarians?
– This is a symbolic anniversary for us, speaking about the history of Bulgaria. Because the institute was established in 1991 after the visit of President Francois Mitterrand and the impetus created by his speech to students (in January 1989 – ed.) At Sofia University about the “wind of change” in Eastern Europe. France decided that it should take part in this breath of freedom.
Of course, our country was present in Bulgaria before 1989. The flow of people, artists, ideas between our countries has existed for a long time. It is very important. What has Bulgaria given to France? We all know the great philosophical names and artists who chose to settle in France and contributed immensely to the intellectual boom in the country. I am talking about names like Julia Krasteva, Tsvetan Todorov, Christo. Now is a good time to recall Christo’s role as a living bridge between France and Bulgaria.
Accordingly, France has been trying over the years – and especially since 1991 – to build bridges in the intellectual and creative life between the two countries. To include Bulgaria in the exchange between institutions and cultures in Europe.
Let’s expand the area of our conversation. A few days ago, there was an EU-Western Balkans meeting in Slovenia, which failed to overcome the reservations of member states to start membership talks with Albania and Northern Macedonia. Bulgaria says “No” for some reason. France says no to others. What are they and to what extent do they coincide with the Bulgarian ones?
– I want to clarify immediately – France has never said “No”. On the contrary, we clearly support the European perspective of the Western Balkans. And if a few months ago we simply recalled aloud our position, it is not because we want to prevent the accession of the Western Balkans to the EU, but we want to clarify that it must take place in a new framework.
France’s words were precisely “yes” to the integration of the Western Balkans, “no” to integration into this framework of negotiations.
We asked for important changes and that happened. Firstly, it is much clearer to specify the conditions that must be met to join the EU. More precisely, the possibility of reversibility, reverse movement. Because the fact that you marked a condition with a cross in the box in the list is fulfilled, it does not mean that it is forever. If something changes in the meantime – there is a retreat towards the rule of law, human rights, the fundamental values of the union – we must also be able to go back and say that this clause is no longer being implemented by the candidate country.
We have agreed to revise the framework for negotiations with the candidate countries. From this moment on, anything is possible for us.
I say once again – France is for the European perspective of the Western Balkans, but not under all conditions, but in the implementation of what we are talking about.
We are very well aware that there are complex situations in the region, unresolved disputes … We sincerely want to help resolve these conflicts, to participate in order to achieve greater European integration of all these countries.
But first, major reforms need to be deepened in each of these countries in the Western Balkans. In particular, we will monitor the fight against corruption, organized crime, gender equality, the rights of minorities … All the work that has already begun must continue. When I say that France is committed to continuing to support the Western Balkans on the path to integration, I mean that at the Bardo meeting we called on the EU to step up its collective efforts to help these countries. Regional cooperation must be greater, supporting good-neighborly efforts and bringing them closer to certain specific European countries.
Can I summarize your explanation with the words “France says yes” but “no” this way?
– “Not the old way.” We achieved this change in the way we did it. The process needs to become more demanding, more binding, to take into account the core values of the EU. In return, we are committed to providing greater support and strengthening EU-Western Balkans cooperation.
Does what you are explaining mean that France wants a new model for EU membership negotiations that is universal and applies to countries like Ukraine, for example?
“I don’t know if we can use that definition.” The negotiating framework must be adapted to the specificities of each country. But I say once again – it must be demanding in all respects and values. This framework must require that what has been achieved be sustainable and lasting over time in order to benefit the peoples of those countries.
The EU’s “green deal” is another hot topic. We should be moving towards completing preparations for this pact, but new disputes and debates seem to be emerging, not consensus. A few days ago, for example, France, Bulgaria and a group of EU countries announced that nuclear energy would receive “green” EU funding as “clean” for the climate. You find yourself in a company with countries from Eastern Europe and Finland (building a Russian nuclear power plant), which rather draws a dividing line with countries such as Germany and anti-nuclear countries in the EU. Why did it happen, what is the goal? Is there no danger of such initiatives slowing down and even failing the Green Pact?
– This topic is very difficult. One would think that it would take us decades to reach an agreement. And it’s not like that. It is a fact that the positions are hardening, but we must overcome this. Because scientists warn that without a quick solution we will not be able to keep global warming within 2 degrees until 2030. Our personal responsibility to future generations, to our children – we are not talking about what would happen in a hundred or a thousand years, but about our time, for the survival of mankind.
The goals are clear, we must fight global warming, and very quickly, to live up to Europe’s commitments – with a 50% reduction in carbon emissions by 2030 and full carbon neutrality in 2050. Nuclear energy is part of the solution . It is clean, secure and economically competitive. Looking at what is happening now with natural gas prices – over 170% price increase since January, you understand what I’m talking about. In addition, this energy allows us to be independent of third parties.
When I talk about autonomy and a strong Europe, I also think about energy independence.
I remind you that Europe is a leader in nuclear energy, it can create thousands of skilled jobs for our citizens. That is why we declare that nuclear energy should be treated on a par with that from renewable sources as clean. Of course, this does not stop us from large-scale investments in RES, they are necessary, but in themselves do not guarantee security and continuity of supply. We see countries that have rejected or pushed aside nuclear power plants being forced to open their coal-fired power plants to secure energy. It’s just amazing. And in a sense, it is unbearable in terms of commitments.
There is a strong enough point of view that opposes yours. I hope you quickly find a place of common interest with her supporters.
– Of course, this must be done. When we talk about the European family, we need to talk, to share our point of view, but not forgetting our mutual commitments and the interests of our citizens and future generations.
Let’s talk about an event on the other side of the world that affected France and resonated in Europe – the strategic agreement AUKUS (Australia, Britain, USA). Many do not understand what the problem is, after talking about Australian nuclear submarines only in 2040, and believe that the sharp response of Paris is only because of the loss of a contract for billions of euros and a typically holistic reaction. What, in fact, will be the consequences for Euro-Atlantic solidarity and European security? Will this case accelerate Europe’s strategic autonomy initiative?
– First, let’s not forget how this agreement was announced. Yes, it will have very serious consequences for Europeans and for the functioning of the Euro-Atlantic Alliance.
Such a course of action, the brutal termination of the partnership with Australia and the announcement of the agreement, shows that Europe needs tools and means to ensure its own security, especially in the Indo-Pacific region. It also says that the EU must have the capacity to act on the world stage. Europe must be autonomous and have much greater solidarity.
They can’t tell Europeans “only deal with your immediate environment, and we will deal with the rest of the world.”
We have interests in the Indo-Pacific region. We believe that what has happened is not in the EU’s interest in this area. Especially in relation to relations with China. That is why I think we need to think together now about how to better ensure our security.
The rapid withdrawal of the United States from Afghanistan without real consultation with Europeans also illustrates the need for Europe to take its own security and interests into its own hands.
Of course, this does not in any way mean that we are moving away from the transatlantic alliance. We have no intention of giving up our commitments to NATO. On the contrary. This is not just a problem for the French. We believe that transatlantic relations must be reformed to meet the new goals and challenges. More efforts are needed on the European side for Euro-Atlantic security. As well as more efforts on the part of the United States to consult and take into account the interests of the European allies.
You are talking about multilateralism, but lately another term is used more and more often – minilateralism, ie. creating compact coalitions to achieve a specific goal. Some more flexible and fast solutions to relatively static structures like NATO. Do you feel a similar trend in the world?
– Yes, there is no denying that there is such a tendency to move towards such coalitions, created over a period of time and not very well structured. In no case should this jeopardize more lasting and deep coalitions formed around deeper and more serious goals. I immediately note European solidarity and the transatlantic union, which is itself part of the stability of the world.
Yes, let us be more flexible and fast, to have the capacity to meet new challenges. But also “Yes” to the core values and trust between allies, which is our compass.
Undoubtedly, the way of announcing AUKUS marks the beginning of a new period, but I also believe that we will emerge stronger from it, with more balanced cooperation. We expect the United States to take a positive view of the birth of a more united Europe. I believe that, on the other hand, Europeans themselves will convince themselves that they can be more effective and capable partners, that they can be more effective on the world stage.
What will the United States benefit from?
– Absolutely. We are convinced of that.
Let’s go back to Europe – what kind of strategic autonomy are we talking about, while the EU has a problem with the rule of law, freedom of the press, corruption … The European Commission was recently criticized in the European Parliament for doing too little and too late, including in Bulgaria sanctioned by the United States under the Magnitsky Global Law. After all, this is a conversation about double standards in foreign policy. For accusations, including against France and the family of European liberals, reformed with the significant role of President Emmanuel Macron. What is France doing to stop these accusations?
– We return to the beginning of our conversation. Our European family is very complicated. The fact is that in a family, common goals and values must be shared and the sovereignty of each of its members must be respected. But all the events and crises we are going through now should convince us that we need to move towards greater cohesion, faster convergence, common values, greater integration that respects history and specificities.
The nations themselves will give the answers. In political structures, reform will be slower. But people are becoming more demanding and in times of crisis they are demanding important reforms. In this sense, I believe in the maturity of nations, although some leaders find it difficult to hear the voice of their people, to walk with them, to lead them to more security, responsibility and prosperity in everyday life in the end.
That is why I consider mobility to be one of the most important dimensions, the flow of people and ideas. All this makes it so that at some point this power of democracy, of shared values, will help to overcome difficulties and obstacles. And this will happen much faster than politicians think.
I come from the field of education and this makes me think that very often politicians forget about the power of young people. Their ability to act as a tsunami sweeping away barriers.
I envy your optimism in a Europe that talks about “captive countries”. At the end of the conversation, share some personal experience in these strange two years of your term in Bulgaria. Something to inspire the courage of young Bulgarians who want and fight for change.
– Bulgaria turned out to be a wonderful surprise for me. I did not know the country. I read about it in history books, but it doesn’t always talk about the best moments. And here I found an extremely beautiful place. Because I come from a country with extremely diverse nature and geography, I immediately felt on a wave with the beautiful surroundings in Bulgaria.
I meet many Bulgarians, I talk to many young people – well educated, creative, with only one desire – to give something of themselves, to make Bulgaria participate at the best possible level in the future of Europe.
Bulgarians are sometimes not sufficiently aware of the wealth not only of nature but also of their people.
This gives me a lot of confidence. Not only the final stage is reached – the transition from dreams to their realization. Bulgarians need to have more self-confidence. To allow themselves to take their future in their hands. You are not alone. A whole Europe of solidarity is with you.
Photo: Since September 2019, Ms. Florence Robin has been Ambassador to Sofia. She has been a physics teacher, holds a doctorate in epistemology and the history of the exact sciences, and comes from a career with senior positions in education management.
